June 22, 2008
SOMETIMES HAVING EXPERT FRIENDS just makes your head spin, instead of adding clarity or bringing resolution. That’s certainly been the case this season on the topic of my weeping Kousa dogwood, which everybody has a strong point of view about…but nobody agrees. Does it stay, or go? Can you help us?
I have a number of Kousa dogwoods, or Cornus kousa, a species native to Japan, China and Korea that’s been in cultivation since Victorian times. I’m sure you know it; besides later, larger flowers than our native C. florida, it has larger fruit and good fall color (so does the American). The Kousa’s bark gets handsome as it matures, peeling in the nicest camouflage pattern, and the tree seems virtually disease-resistant, especially compared to the American with its susceptiblity to anthracnose fungus. But I digress from the beauty-contest at hand.
Here’s the thing: I’ve never liked the plant, named C.k. ‘Lustgarten Weeping,’ which I’ve grown from a tiny grafted creature of mere twig-like proportion I bought from Dan Hinkley maybe a decade ago, to its current 9-foot spread and 5-foot height. Every year I mean to toss it out. Really.
This spring, expert friends pointed at it and said, “When will you get rid of that thing?” and so I called a nurseryman friend to come and take it as a gift, to sell to someone else perhaps. He was busy, and delayed.
Last weekend other expert friends were having supper in the yard and pointed at it and said, “Gosh, when did that get put in? It’s beautiful.”
A quick call to the nurseryman friend averted disaster, or did it? And now that this has come up as a bigger decision than just “Come take it away,” I’ve done some reading and recalled that ‘Lustgarten Weeping’ was selected by the late Jim Cross of Environmentals Nursery on Long Island, someone I knew and admired. I think that’s why I ordered it in the first place, thinking of Jim.
So now I really am in a mess. What do we all think of weeping kousas (or weeping trees in general)? Should it stay or should it go? The polls are now open: Dial (#@$) %CX-&*XH on your mobile phones or Text %&#…no, wait, wrong competition, so just register your vote by hitting COMMENT.
UPDATE 6/26: The mason has been at it, and the kousa now has a retaining wall on the downhill side of its domain, mostly complete (photo below). More to come…but progress. I am feeling optimistic about having it with me for a good long time, I think. Agreed?
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68 Responses to “weeping kousa: does it stay, or go?”
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I vote keep! It is a striking speciman.
I’m not fond of weepers, but I can understand being attached to something you grew from a twig, particularly something special like this. Still, the key words are: “I’ve never liked the plant”. I’d try hard to find it a good home.
So we’re 1-1 in the first round of voting; thanks Carol, and welcome, Pru. A stone retaining wall is going in to the right of the plant starting tomorrow, where previously the land sloped down toward a large pine that died last fall, so this whole area is under discussion…material for many upcoming posts, I expect.
Isn’t your garden is large enough to accommodate at least one weeping plant - so much for fashion? Especially if the kousa memorializes someone you admired. I have a couple of shrubs that remind me of individuals I loved - ones I put in as they were ill. My way of continuing to live with them.
Welcome, Peter…nice to have you here. You are correct, it is nice to have one of Jim Cross’s favorites here, too.
Nothing wrong with weeping shrubs as long as there aren’t too many of them. I vote “stay”. May I suggest planting white-variegated hostas under it?
I know this dilemma - it’s a tough decision and really depends, for me, on how much I truly like something. If you are attached to it because you grew it from a small twig, then I guess I’d vote for keeping it. But then, you have also wanted to get rid of it for years. That says something equally important. Do you have a different vision for this particular spot?
The difficulty here is that I can’t see how this shrub fits into its environment, which is also something that matters.
Thanks, Zehav, and welcome, Kate. The spot is definitely evolving, since the giant tree that dominated this side of the house, a tree of maybe 75 years or even older is now gone. I think the coming wall and other modifications that commence tomorrow will show it off nicely…uh-oh, sounds now like I am thinking “keep,” or ???
I vote to keep it. I think it is a beautiful plant.
I’m in. Keep it. You grew it from a cutting, you should be proud of your success. If you have to move it/have it moved somewhere else, so be it, but don’t get rid of it altogether. If you lived closer I’d take a few cuttings myself! =)
pass it on to the gardenhoes.
that’s my vote.
Welcome, Daphne (such a botanical name!) and Amanda, two votes for “keep.”
And as for you, BlueArrow (a.k.a. Miss Gardenhoe), I suspect your comment may be a bit self-serving. Could I be right?
Hello!
I think the ‘Lustgarten Weeping’ is gorgeous but if it’s something you’ve never really liked and you are reworking the area, then you should call the nurseryman, again, so he can take it away.
The absence of the 75-year-old tree gives you an excuse - or is it a reason - to create something different in this area.
To me your property is a beautiful creative space that is constantly evolving. I know there are other, equally beautiful specimens out there that would look great against the new wall.
Keep it. It’s just one tree. It has an honourific purpose (for Jim) and it dazzles at least half of the people who visit your garden. Keeping it would be just as generous as giving it away. You might also be able to plant around it to mask it a bit, or push it to the role of a background player.
I like only one kind of weeping tree, generally: the traditional willow. But they only look good along the banks of a body of water on a very large property and are best viewed at a distance. Weeping birch… I don’t like.
-Andrew
Who? Me?
Self serving?
That hurts. Hurts deeply. I am sad. so, so, sad you could think this…
Here I am…weeping.
(Get it?? ‘weeping’) Weeping Kousa!!!
The tree itself isn’t my favorite, but it seems happy and has a good history. Unless you find something else you really want to plant there I’d leave it.
That said it doesn’t feel quite settled in place, at least in this photo. Maybe an evergreen behind it, some daphnes in front. even a boulder or two. The Japanese seem to be the masters of making weeping trees feel natural, take a few clues fron them.
Well, Margaret, if it were my garden, I would keep it. I love weeping trees, and the sentimentality would override my aesthetics. But this is your garden, and you should listen to your inner voice and decide what it is that you want. Don’t worry about what everyone else thinks, just listen to yourself - and me of course!
Welcome, Martha…and hello to the familiar faces. If I am counting right (which is hard because one or two of you are conflicted like I am) we’re running 8 yes and 3 or 4 no at the moment.
As Ted says, it isn’t settled in place–because I had moved everything out from near it for the tree-diggers to come and take it away, and because the big area of shade nearby was shade no longer. Whatever I do w/the Kousa, the area is getting a rehab starting at 8 tomorrow morning when the mason arrives. No pressure, just hurry up and decide, right!
I think it all comes down to you. Whether or not “you” think it is lovely. It is your garden and you are the one looking at it everyday. If you cannot take joy in it’s presence then I say yes, let someone come and take it away. It could be perhaps exactly what someone else has been looking for.
Welcome, Lisa, to A Way to Garden, and thanks for jumping right in.
Sentiment has always ruled my life. Not taste,not discretion, not editing. You give it to me, it will stay: I’ll make it work. I have learned the virtues of grouping. So I think Ted is right. With the context altered and improved, you may be happy. In addition, I understand preference but not prejudice. I didn’t even know there was a movement against weeping trees (I’m old enough to remember the prejudice against variegated plants!).
I vote it’s time to plan a Japanese contemplation garden and move this beauty to it’s new home where you can contemplate how fab it looks there! Than you can better enjoy your vision of the new retaining wall and it’s environs, yet feel good knowing the tree is still an active tribute. A photograph of the tree is a lovely tribute, too.
I think that we sometimes don’t appreciate an item in our garden until someone reminds us of how spectacular the specimen is. Seeing with fresh eyes can make all the difference in the world. I can’t help but wonder: Is there something in the vacinity that draws your eye, subtracts from the whole and, therefore, makes you think that this is the item needs to go, rather than something else?
Please keep the tree. It seems like a treasure Sandra Iden
Simply stated… it’s a keeper.
Hi, Margaret. I am new to your blog (since the article in the NYT) but I have to tell you, I have become addicted. I greatly enjoyed wandering in your beautiful garden and getting answers to questions I didn’t even know I had (I am a very novice but enthusiastic gardener).
I love kousas. Generally speaking I like better those which seem to erupt upwards like flaming torches and I didn’t know they came in the weeping variety. But the shape and cream color of their flowers are striking and when they bloom, most of the other trees look very boring. So I’d vote for you to keep it if you think you can live with it!
Welcome islandexile, Sandra, MC and Margie to A Way to Garden. (Oh, and Kenn, hello to you, too.) ;-)
I think that’s six more “keep” and one more maybe, which brings the vote to…approximately 14-4 or 5. And on Twitter (any of you use it?) we got a couple of other “keep” votes, so I guess our audience is speaking. But you never know what tomorrow will bring. Sleeping on it over here…
The tree should remain. I cannot bear removing healthy, thriving trees!
I have to agree with teaorwine. I can’t see taking out a perfectly healthy tree especially if it has some sentimental value. Besides, it’s really pretty!
I don’t particularly like white flowers esp since they don’t photograph well. Then again, they can succeed as closeups to make fine black and white photos. When seen in person and not on a photo-page, I like them crowded or cornered by other vegetation. I prefer dogwoods surrounded and overtopped by dark green vegetation or pushed close to the house. I would avoid displaying them alone like this example. Full sun blasts the white and it’s simply too bright and contrasty for my tastes. We got rid of ours about 4 years ago.
I would keep. In fact I would love it in my yard!
Ruthlessness is important when you keep a small garden. Having a large garden, you may feel differently. But I’m not too sentimental about plants I don’t love. In fact, last year I took out a healthy vitex tree that everyone else adored and replaced it with something I liked better. So my vote is, if you don’t love this tree, let it go. It’s your canvas.
Isn’t that delightful?
Well Margaret let me add my two cents, since you asked.
If the stone work, mason lime, and general soil tearing that will go on putting in the stone wall does not kill it, or weaken it to the point where insect pests kill it, it probably earned a permanent place in the garden, wouldn’t you think? And while Ken Smith is correct about white flowers not photographing well in sun, I find the white really pops in early morning or twilight. If the stone work doesn’t kill the thing, leave it be.
Have you heard the saying, it’s no loss what a friend gets? So give the weeping kousa to someone who really wants it. It isn’t going to improve on you!
Surround it gracefully with different textures of vegetation, hemlock?, smoke tree? so that is isn’t such a focal
point for you.
Move it if you must before giving it away, but remember it is thriving where it is. We all know of the perfect plant for the perfect
spot and that plant is not happy.
Hello to Tricia and to Sharon, who both offer good advice. I am getting closer to my decision…and the mason is doing his thing out there now as I type.
Hi Margaret, I say it is your palette and I know, as an artist, what a clean new canvas can do. It is exciting, daring me to transform it into a piece that will give me joy. It allows me to keep changing, adding, REMOVING, till I love it. Even then I am editing. So I say that beauty will still look good if placed elsewhere. What would Gertrude do ;-)
The weeping-ness I’m not so fond of (I actually love the horizontal-ity of the species) but the kousa-ness is fabulous. I think the plant is lovely. I vote for keeping, if it’s not too late, but I am conflicted, too. Do you have C. kousa anywhere else in the garden? I love the comment by Ted about making it more comfortable in its setting. I’m going to try to remember that.
I discovered your blog this weekend (actually, my husband pointed out Anne Raver’s column in the NYTimes). It was very hot this weekend in No. CA and instead of tending to the garden, I enjoyed catching up on your earlier blog posts. Great stuff! I’ll be interested to see what happens.
joan
I vote save it. At the very least move it to a part of the garden where it might not be so obvious to you but could be admired by visitors. I personally have many weepers and constantly on the lookout for anything new. I guess thats why there is chocolate AND vanilla in this world.
Hi Margaret,
I would keep it. It will look nice against the new retaining wall. Yes, definitely, I would keep it.~~Dee
Me, I’d keep it but it’s not in my garden, now is it? I think you should give it to someone who’d LOVE having it, then have the fun of choosing something new.
Wow. Nine More “keepers” recorded, and a few maybe’s or “It’s gotta go’s.”
The Kousa is still where it was for the last dozen years, and frankly doesn’t even seem to have noticed we’re talking about it. I guess it plans to stay, even if Mommy is confused.
P.S.–The stone mason loves it. So I suspect he is building it a place of honor. His vote may count BIG.
Keep keep keep … Or if not will it transplant into someone else’s garden who does want it?
Hello! If You do not love this tree in spite of all good intentions please pass it on.
Hello Jane–nice to see you here again. I hope the season in London is going well, though I read that you are giving up your allotment garden and moving, so it sounds like a busy season indeed.
And welcome, Liz. I am leaning toward keeping it, now that I see the start of some resolution as the mason shapes the area, but I Will keep your vote in mind. I assume you meant pass it on to YOU? ;-)
The key is, you don’t like it. And you have a new home for it, so it’s not like you’re reducing it to that Compost Heap in the Sky.
You said,”I’ve never liked the plant” and there’s your answer. Find it a new home where it will be wanted.
BTW: I have several dogwood, including a few Kousa, and love them all. My husband did a major pruning to one near an old barn a few years ago. I freaked when I saw how much he took off but now it looks lovely.
Welcome Karen Anne and Barbara, and you are right: I never have liked it. Funny, though, now that I have lost the big tree nearby and the whole area is all torn up and unfamiliar, I am starting to feel attached to this one familiar “face”–the kousa.
As of today, it’s still there and doesn’t look like it’s up and leaving right yet.
Bet you’d love it in a new location. So, I am splitting my own vote.. keeping it but put it in a different spot.
If you do move it outta’ there I would love to hear how it is done. As a newby gardener I can use all the information I can get!
Lyn
Welcome, Lyn. I am leaning toward “stay,” but if something with a rootball that size had to move, I would need help, that much I can tell you!
Here I am, your pal Dorita the accidental gardener, and I say keep the kousa! But should you decide not to, then send it to my office where it will surely bloom all year long, like my Azaleas From Outer Space. The azalea plants are full of gorgeous hot pink blooms right now, and I will follow your instructions and repot them if they ever actually go dormant. I love reading everything on this wonderful website, especially the woo-woo! XXX
Welcome, Dorita. And yes, your azaleas (blooming 23 floors above Manhattan terra firma on a radiator-clad windowsill, year in and out) are indeed from Outer Space. Glad you like the woo-woo…we could profile your azaleas there!
I love it. But - I also recognize that my opinions rarely change on this kind of thing, so I probably would never grow to like it.
Since you say you’ve never liked it, let it go to someone who will.
Welcome Chzplz (love that phonetic name of yours). The funniest thing is that now that he stone wall is going in, and the spot being reshaped so drastically from how it was when the former tree stood nearby, I am really starting to grow attached. I will upload some photos of how it’s coming…in between rainstorms.
It is just so very beautiful. Please keep it.
Late to the party, but —
I always think “want” is a very clear and undeniable emotion. Anytime I’m asking myself whether I want/like something (be it a plant or a sweater) I remind myself the very question is evidence that I don’t. If I WANTED it, there’d be nothing for me to dabate with myself.
But 55 comments and a few days of progress later, Margaret, it looks like your reluctance to let it go might also be meaningful.
I say if you’ve decided, with its revised setting, that you like it after all, then by all means keep it. But if you find yourself still wondering, then you simply don’t want it, and would be better off giving it to someone who does and replacing it with something your heart truly desires.
Its a keeper for sure(-: Just beautiful!!!
It’s a keeper, but it needs a friend, a companion to balance its unique personality. Like a good marriage, it needs something else to be a supporter of its qualities. It is like a demure bride, lowering her eyes to show off the beauty of her intricate lace. What she needs is a strong spring groom to stand behind her, one which balances her demure demeanor, one which reaches outward with broad shoulders and a strong foundation. Eastern redbud, perhaps?
Welcome, Amy. A redbud is a good idea…and I will tell Fair Lady Kousa that you spoke about her as such.
My objecttive opinion of this tree - without seeing it in context - is that there is really nothing not to like about it…but if you don’t like it, get rid of it. When something in my garden doesn’t satisfy me after a couple of seasons, out it goes. Give it to me! I can come get it next weekend.
Welcome, Phillip, and yes, you are right, on both counts. Nothing wrong with the tree, and nothing wrong with likes and dislikes. Buit I am now growing to like the damn thing thanks to seeing it through all of your collective eyes!
Well you missed a perfect opportunity when your expert friend said“Gosh, when did that get put in? It’s beautiful.”
when you could have just passed them the shovel !
Personally I always say your garden is your own sanctuary and should reflect and contain only things you trasure and love so …. dig it up put it in a big pot on your front yard with a notice … FREE TO LOVING HOME :-)
Welcome, Veneda. Thanks for visiting. The kousa and I are still here working on our relationship, which is improving with all this good counseling!
I have never been fond of this tree. Why have an overdesigned Kousa when one can have a far-more-delicate and airy true dogwood? Plus the excess of white always makes me think of high-school students and toilet-papering pranks.
the weeping Kousa looks great with the new wall!! That was what it needed all along!! A perch!!
I say keep them if you have the space. I have 2 of them tucked into a woodland border garden within a 50 acre property. They are almost 3yrs old and still quite small. I can’t wait for them to look like yours! And I agree with Betty, it look great with the new wall.
Hi, Lusi, and welcome to A Way to Garden. I am happy to “meet” someone else who is growing the plant, and two in fact. Mine was tiny when I planted it, and you are right: it looks good now that it is enshrined with the wall and such. I am thinking about how to plant the adjacent area so soon maybe I will post more photos.
I saw this in your garden a year ago and thought it was like a bonsai version of larger ones I had seen. I loved it and photographed it. It looks lonely up there. I’m sure on the next visit it will have some friends.